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Naval
@naval
Programmable money (ETH, etc) is hard to scale. So people build Layer 2s.

But these Layer 2s are barely decentralized. And now there’s a crop of L2s that are really just multisigs.

But wouldn’t a sufficiently large group of multisigs be somewhat decentralized? Like a digital Hawala network?

Especially for transactions (but not for smart contracts where money is locked up).
825❤️30🤙14👍2:rip:1✅1❤1
ponymontana💜⚡ · 96w
But comunicate across different multisigs is less efficient than communicate on the L1 network, so is: - few centralized L2s, not too much net-effect lost, less fees and less data on L1 ---> centralized scaling solution. - a lot of decentralized L2s, net-effect lost, need to back to L1 to regain n...
MayDood · 96w
ETH is a scam. It’s not money, do more research.
gladstein · 96w
Check out the fedimint protocol This is the idea The main app right now is Fedi https://fedimint.org
Sats McNic · 96w
Personally, I'm a fan of Fedimint. Multisigs across a group of people & businesses is a scaling solution I can get behind. Sure, it technically increases the chances of getting rugged, but the probabilities are minuscule, if structured properly. Every advantage has a disadvantage. With Fedis, the...
Nyoro~n · 96w
The usage of L2 by the shitcooners doesn't make any sense. ETHirium abandoned the utxo model alongside PoW later on because Bitcoin couldn't 'scale' in favor of the account/contract base model. The general assumption being that any use case that "couldn't scale on Bitcoin" would move to other chain...
tohrxyz · 96w
tbh arbitrum's model seems to be ok to some extent. obviously wouldn't touch it with tens-of-thousands of dollars-equivalent, but with something bearable, the speed and cheapness is a good trade
Soul Reaver · 96w
"Programmable money (ETH, etc) is hard to scale" Heard of this small token called SOL?
calvadev⚡️ · 96w
With enough multisigs or mints, L2s can most definitely be "sufficiently" decentralized, particularly for payments; e-cash implementations like Cashu and Fedimint are good examples of this: https://cashu.space/ https://fedimint.org/ Having as many mints as possible to distribute risk and having k...
Nathan Day · 96w
That's basically Liquid. Fedi does something similar with eCash and it's also possible to spread risk between many individual (singlesig) Cashu mints, which can coordinate to make single lightning payments using MPP.
ShiShi21m · 96w
You really view LN in this light?
Natakouta 🩸🩸🩸 · 96w
Did you check Moduluszk.io ? A decentralized L2 powered by Cult DAO https://image.nostr.build/d65e789c07219d7b2aea42a793a420665526314605941698728f7e1b8d890d7b.jpg
The Daniel 🖖 · 96w
“a sufficiently large group of multisigs” So…the Lightning network?
Beastboi · 96w
Hhhh
sterling · 96w
If we resign to scaling with multisigs, then what’s the point of ETH? Bitcoin is enough.
Primordial🦌 · 96w
ETH represents yet another systemically insecure abstract power hierarchy where control authority over ledger writing privilege is centralized in the hands of the foundation and large institutional investors. "Stake" doesn't physically exist, it is just a just a software metaphor. It is therefore ...
So Tachi · 92w
ZK rollup might improve on this
Marc · 91w
Except with #Algorand, scaling and decentralised from Layer 1 https://algorand.co/
paolo · 41w
still active buddy? i hope so