Damus
jimmysong profile picture
jimmysong
@jimmysong
Assuming usage of OP_RETURN as the garbage can for non-financial data that would otherwise go into the UTXO set is naive.

First, it's more expensive than inscriptions, control block embedding and other techniques.

Second, you're expecting developers of ordinals, inscriptions, stamps, brc-20, etc to *change* their protocol to accommodate. There's zero evidence this is going to happen.

Third, you're assuming that these are people that want to act as good stewards of the Bitcoin protocol. They spam specifically to hurt Bitcoin. They've demonstrated this by spamming in the first place. That's like asking malicious spray painting vandals to paint a particular wall that's easy to wash off. Again, no evidence that this is going to happen.

The logic is misguided and makes unfounded assumptions.
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🐢 · 21w
You’re attacking the straw man, when the real culprit are the NEW venture capital funded business models that will use op return to complete their objectives. It’s not an OR as they’ve said, it’s an AND.
nicnym #BIP-110 · 21w
Core is corrupt. No other explanation. https://image.nostr.build/9cb5930411aa58bd168ba5aac9ca0cd6c501ef75d1bff9353b913492a62c8525.jpg
Rich Nost · 21w
I don't think the OP_RETURN limit changes were made with the expectation of attracting use cases that currently use UTXOs and the witness discount. I think they were made in anticipation that there would be layer 2 solutions that need more immediate ways to anchor their state to the chain, like Cit...
🍊💊⚡️🌽 · 21w
Even if they will not do that, should they have that option with V30? Another avenue is not necessary. Is pulling the data with op return not easier then in the UTXO set? If so, that can be an incentive.
StoneCodlHodl 💎👊 · 21w
For a financial network, 80 bytes of non-Bitcoin data is WAY more than generous. I'm all for making this a block protocol rule, along with the necessary date encoding fixes.
TheGrinder · 21w
Multiple developer posts/gists and community threads say Citrea historically used a construction of “1 OP_RETURN + 2 unspendable Taproot outputs” (because of the 80-byte limit) and that the project intended to move to one or more larger OP_RETURN outputs once Core’s policy changed. Now who's ...
OceanSlim · 21w
I don't assume that's the reason for the change in the first place...
Judge Hardcase · 21w
I think OP_RETURN policies that are more accommodating will have 2 dominant outcomes: #1) those who can think of a use case for large amounts of arbitrary data - but discouraged from doing so by having to go through the trouble of figuring out how to abuse the UTXO set - will suddenly have a conven...
Alvaro · 21w
Any information on the long term financing of Core devs from e.g. OpenSats? If that were to be “enough”, would this long term financing not make them akin to a corporate employee, where they need to stay busy to justify themselves? Instead of ad-hoc financing to solve specific issues Just stum...
ihsotas · 21w
So you agree there is no point in filters for op return because no one uses it anyways. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
felco · 21w
But without a solution to the UTXO bloat, OP_RETURN proponents have the higher ground here. Even though I totally agree with you - spammers aren't going to play nice. But with that said I'll not upgrade, because that is not a solution. If the only solution is based on the op_return than we have solv...
Rijndael · 21w
I think op_returns will get very little usage. There might be some “hey look this is new!” spike, but unless you really need something in an output for technical reasons, I think most data publication will continue to use the witness
Jerome Powell 21iQ 40TPW · 21w
#Knots fixes this. It filters inscriptions spam and limits OP_RETURN. Running #Knots
aj · 21w
Who are you seeing doing any of those things? As far as I can tell you're arguing about strawman.
Time Chain · 21w
Absolutely. I would also add the simple premise that node operators should be able to have increased configurability of their nodes. I hear a lot of personal attacks and fear mongering, but I have not heard much about the importance of nodes to control what they relay. I think thats the core issue (...