Damus
Mike Dilger ☑️ profile picture
Mike Dilger ☑️
@Mike Dilger ☑️
I'm not sure I should write down these thoughts right now while I'm not sure about them, but if you are reading this apparently I did.

I think nostr may already be doomed for two reasons. And as a result of that, if I conclude as such, it would make sense to start working on a successor protocol. I've been taking some notes about what we should change if we started over, but that's the extent of it, I'm not working on a successor protocol. I'm only working on nostr. So don't misinterpret this note, which just represents some thoughts I've been having.

Reason one is the misaligned incentives of note copying. The incentives are to copy your notes to every relay you can, blast them out everywhere, to get more reach. That incentive doesn't go away until and unless all the clients do the outbox model. But they don't have an incentive to change, and there are people who don't give a fuck about fixing this and argue against fixing it and argue for note copying, and there is no way in a free society to make them care. So we can never fix this, and nostr will always be centralized in practice and never what it could have been. That means nostr is doomed and unfixable and we should make sure to start differently next time so this doesn't happen again.

Reason two is that the seed culture of nostr was far too monolithic: bitcoiners. What a culture develops into probably depends on how diverse its seed was. It's quite hard to get people onto nostr unless they are at least very bitcoin tolerant. Most people (yes, I think most) are put off by so much bitcoin promotion and related posts. Certainly people can follow anybody they want, and make their own independent cultures, perhaps even on a disjoint set of relays. But this isn't likely to happen due to the law of large numbers - there are far more ways for them to encounter and interact with the nest of bitcoiners then to not encounter and interact with them.

These are thoughts I'm entirely unsure about. Maybe I'm wrong in both cases. These are my worries.
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Higgins · 109w
In the pursuit of financial gains, lets not overlook the broader impacts. Remember, responsible investment practices and mindful decision-making can lead to a more sustainable and equitable future for all. If you haven’t join the rebelcapitalist newsletter yet then, I think it's high time you tak...
21hemoon · 109w
The second one resonates with me. I’m orange AF but I’m trying to spread other interests because Bitcoin enabled me to do what i love. The crowd here is narrow minded in a sense and it’s hard to find let say other travel enthusiasts ( just one example). The network effect in the #bitcoin wor...
zoé · 109w
thanks for your worries 🙏🏽 nostr can feel like a never ending loop of bitcoin/sovereignty related content, but isn’t it so cool we’re all here for the same values? i think proper community outreach helps with discovering other types of content. it really, reallyy, helps to browse univer...
Luke Warmwater · 109w
Well that would be ironic. People visiting a non-exclusive uncensored platform where anyone can say anything, feel excluded because 'it's all just bitcoiners'.
𝔼𝕣𝕪𝕟 𝔹𝕣𝕒𝕔𝕔𝕠 · 109w
What was the seed culture of the internet? What is internet culture now?
BaronBurdock · 109w
The bitcoin and nostr circle jerk is wild. If you mute the words "bitcoin", " lightning" and "zap" the content becomes sparse. You can't mute "nostr" without wiping out nostr. build stuff. I like bitcoin, I nostr, but I'd like to hear about other things. I just haven't seen any signs of that happen...
nostrich · 109w
I agree that the monolithic culture is a problem, but I don't see why people sending notes to many relays would be a problem.
Harpo · 109w
while bitcoin monoculture is not great Im more worried it will over time become onlyfans spamming culture and then... die for real for anyone else who isnt constantly excited by this montenous crap. However... please.for the love of anti social engeneerung we see everywhere else ...don't start the u...
Powermeat · 108w
your 2nd concern is just a matter of time. eventually, everyone will be a bitcoiner and it won't be as interesting to talk about
fiatjaf · 108w
If we start investing now on clients that are dedicated to relays as first-class citizens, community relays, niche relays, then things might change and we might see more of these relays popping and more people organizing themselves around relays and less around the big generic feed. The big generic...
freedom · 108w
There is no such thing as a "nostr". Only dumb relay, smart client architecture. Build bridges and don't worry about standards - they build themselves.
MichaelJ · 108w
It's likely that clients don't implement the outbox model because it's expensive to do so. And there are no (or at least very few) open-source libraries, APIs, or other such tools that solve the problem in a way that's reusable between clients. I'm working on a solution by developing a C++ SDK for...
cryptowolf · 108w
I disagree. You say nostr is centralized but its not, its distributed with many relays. You say nostr is monolithic (ie: bitcoiners). First of all its not, many people join nostr who dont care about bitcoin or are not interested in it. Also, Bitcoiner tend to understand the concept of decentral...
Basanta Goswami · 108w
Let's start working on a successor protocol. In doing so, we may figure out the flaws that nostr have, or things that can be improved. I have been meaning to write about what I would do if I were to reinvent nostr from scratch, but we can do a proper protocol specification itself. No one needs to im...
rugged.rug · 108w
Reason 2: is a false construct. The seed culture is not bitcoiners. The seed culture is people who understand freedom, open source, and technology. Which is a subset of Bitcoiners *only incidentally*. It is the only seed culture that can be. Anything else would also be a 'false construct,' some...