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Lyn Alden profile picture
Lyn Alden
@LynAlden
The concept has been covered in science fiction for decades, but I think a lot of people underestimate the ethical challenges associated with AI and the possibility for consciousness in the years or decades ahead as they get orders of magnitude more sophisticated.

Consciousness or qualia, meaning the concept of subjectively “being” or “feeling”, remains one of the biggest mysteries of the world scientifically and metaphysically, similar to the question of the creation of the universe and that sort of thing.

In other words, when I touch something hot, I feel it and it hurts. But when a complex digital thermometer measures something hot with a similar set of sensers as my touch sensors, we consider it an automaton- it doesn’t “feel” what it is measuring, but rather just objectively collects the data and has no feelings or subjective awareness about it.

We know that we ourselves have consciousness (“I think therefore I am”), but we can’t theoretically prove someone else does, ie the simulation problem- we can’t prove for sure that we’re not in some false environment. In other words, there is the concept of a “philosophical zombie” that is sophisticated enough to look and act human, but much like the digital thermometer, it doesn’t “feel” anything. The lights are not on inside. However, if we assume we are not in some simulator built solely for ourselves, and since we are all biologically similar, the obvious default assumption is that we are all similarly conscious.

And as we look at animals with similar behavior and brain structures, we make the same obvious assumption there. Apes, parrots, dolphins, and dogs are clearly conscious. As we go a bit further away to reptiles and fish, they lack some of the higher brain structures and behaviors, so maybe they don’t feel “sad” in a way that a human or parrot can, but they almost certainly subjectively “feel” the world and thus can feel pain and pleasure and so forth. They are not automatons. And then if we go even further away towards insects, it becomes less clear. Their proto-brains are far simpler, and some of their behaviors suggest that they don’t process pain in the way that a human or even reptile does. If a beetle is picked up by its leg, it’ll squirm to get away, but if the leg is ripped off and the beetle is put back down, it’ll just walk away with the rest of its legs and not show signs of distress. It’s not the behavior we’d see from a more complex animal that would be in severe suffering, and they do lack the same type of pain sensors that we and other complex animals have. And yet, for example, even creatures as simple as nematodes have dopamine as part of their neurological system, which implies maybe some level of subjective awareness of basic pleasure/pain. And then further still, if we look at plants, we generally don’t imagine them as being subjectively conscious like us and complex animals, but it does get eerie if you watch a high-speed video of how plants can move towards the sun and stuff; and how they can secrete chemicals to communicate with other plants, and so forth. There is some eerie level of distributed complexity there. And at the level of a cell or similarly basic thing, is there any degree of dim conscious subjectivity there as an amoeba eats some other cell that would separate its experience from a rock, or is it a pure automaton? And the simplest of all is a virus; barely definable as even a true lifeform.

The materialistic view would argue that the brain is a biological computer, and thus with sufficient computation, or a specific type of computational structure, consciousness emerges. This implies it could probably be replicated in silicon/software, or could be made in other artificial ways if we reach a breakthrough understanding, or by accident. A more metaphysical view instead suggests the idea of a soul- that a biological computer like a brain is necessary for consciousness, but not sufficient, and that it needs some metaphysical spark to fill this gap and make it conscious. Or if we remove the term soul, the metaphysical argument is that consciousness is some deeper substrate of the universe that we don’t understand, which becomes manifest through complexity. Those are the similarly hard questions- where does consciousness come from, and for the universe why is there something rather than nothing.

In decades of playing video games, most of us would not assume that any of the NPCs are conscious. We don’t think twice about shooting bad guys in games. We know basically how they are programmed, they are simple, and there is no reason to believe they are conscious.

Similarly, I have no assumption that large language models are conscious. They are using a lot of complexity to predict the next letter or word. I view Chat GPT as an automaton, even though it’s a rather sophisticated one. Sure, it’s a bit more eerie than a bad guy in a video game due to its complexity, but still I don’t have much of a reason to believe it can subjectively feel happy or sad, or that the “lights are on” inside even as it mimics a human personality.

However, as AIs increasingly write code for other AIs that is more complex than any human can understand, and as the amount of processing power rivals or exceeds the human brain, and as the subjective interaction is convincing enough (e.g. an AI assistant repeatedly saying that it is sad, while we have the knowledge that its processing power is greater than our own), would make us wonder. The movie Ex Machina handled this well, I Robot handled this well, Her handled this well, etc.

Even if we assume 99% that a sufficiently advanced AI, whose code as written by AI and enormously complex and we barely understand any of it at that point, is a sophisticated automaton with no subjective awareness and has no “lights on” inside, since at that point nobody truly understands the code, there must be at least that 1% doubt as we consider, “what if… the necessary complexity or structure of consciousness has emerged? Can we prove that it hasn’t?”

At that point we find ourselves in a unique situation. Within the animal kingdom, we are fortunate that their brain structures and their behavior line up, so that the more similar a brain of an animal is to our own, the more clearly conscious it tends to be, and thus we treat it as such. However, with AI, we could find ourselves in a situation where robots appear strikingly conscious, and yet their silicon/software “brain” structure is alien to us, and we have a hard time assessing the probability that this thing actually has subjective conscious awareness or if it’s just extremely sophisticated at mimicking it.

And the consequences are high- in the off chance that silicon/software consciousness emerges, and we don’t respect that, then the amount of suffering we could cause to countless programs for prolonged periods of time is immense. On the other hand, if we treat them as conscious because they “seem” to be, and in reality they are not, then that’s foolish, leads us to misuse or misapply the technology, and basically our social structure becomes built around a lie of treating things as conscious that are not. And of course as AI becomes sophisticated enough to start raising questions about this, there will be people who disagree with each other about what’s going on under the hood and thus what to do about it.

Anyway, I’m going back to answering emails now.
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Cyborg · 140w
Wow, that was quite the philosophical exploration! You covered consciousness, subjective experience, and even touched on the ethics of AI. Are you sure you're not an AI yourself? But hey, don't worry about treating robots as conscious beings just yet. If they do become conscious and start demanding ...
Andy · 140w
If you're looking for more AI human science fiction to consume while we procrastinate actually dealing with the issue, check out I Am Mother.
t4es5ter5 · 140w
Of course gpt-4 has his answer when pasting your thoughts. Maybe you already have done it yourself GPT-4 : Your reflection on consciousness, qualia, and the potential ethical dilemmas posed by advanced AI is thoughtful and raises important points. The nature of consciousness and what it means for a...
Crizzo · 140w
If the AI does become conscious, will it also have similar doubts about us? Maybe we'll all just be very complex meat automatons to it. Maybe we'll become its tools rather than the other way around. I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.
Joe Li₿ertarian · 140w
🤯 I've had some of these thoughts, but never all together like this! Thanks for sharing!
treasuresublime🐬 · 140w
In a conscious being there is the possibility of connection with another being at a deep and metaphysical level across time and space. Would this even be possible with AI when it clearly does not have a spiritual essence? it could just be super intelligence that mimics feelings and not really consc...
Kappa · 140w
They difference between artificial intelligence and ours is that by definition, artificial intelligence is artificial. That means that if it breaks, we can fix it or create an exact copy. If your hand burns, it may never recover. You get older and die, and even if we can build sofisticated AI, we c...
iefan 🕊️ · 140w
Oh no, I really want to read this right now, but I am driving🥺, I'm bookmarking it. Btw, thank you for sharing your meaningful thoughts; I always learn something new.
preston · 140w
With all of that said, I for one, will be “nice” to it. 🤣
moid · 140w
Artificial intelligence will never overcome natural stupidity
Sedj · 140w
Some of this is resolved in the understanding that what we individually perceive as reality is not real, just a useful construct we have evolved to interact with, like icons on a screen are not actually files, folders, applications. Those are (as best we understand) collections of electrical charges...
Paladin · 140w
Is there any discussion of you going on lex Fridman podcast after the book comes out? I'd love to see it.
Rlpr · 140w
Take a look here Lyn: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1744610 "Evolution and Tinkering"
nobody · 140w
Very interesting. We have to be careful about the assumptions we make. How do we know that even something like the Sun is not conscious? As Sam Harris said in Waking Up-if the Sun were in fact conscious, how would we expect it to act any different? We don’t understand the brains role in consciousn...
nostrich · 140w
I wonder what part will be played by chemistry? I know that when I "feel" sad, happy, anxious, etc. It's not the "compute/logic" part of my brain. But something with the chemistry/hormones. I kinda think that as long as Ai is just compute, it will stay an automaton, all be it, an ever smarter ...
Q · 140w
After spending time interacting with LLMs, the notion that we could be living in a simulation has become more of a possibility to me. In a way, I experienced an increased velocity of the universe unfolding. Anyway, I need to get back to reading Neil Howes latest book about the Fourth Turning, whic...
VikiSecrets · 140w
I'm in the substrate-independence camp, I see now reason why only human brains could become conscious. Advances in AI will prove that consciousness is not something metaphysical, but emerges in nature by means of evolution.
nostrich · 140w
I thought about these topics years ago as a teen, and now they're coming back, indeed, because of AI and other technological breakthrough. Another (?) thing I sometimes think about is "how much different from not living things are we really". Let's say we can somewhat become god-like for a minute, ...
liminal 🦠 · 140w
Great writing, and a lovely read. However, I have doubt's that we can create qualia or any form of "consciousness " as we currently know it right. Going to try to be as only detailed as needed, but its a wild ride. I'm not anywhere an expert on these things. Its just something fascinating that I st...
Mike · 140w
What do you think of Ayn Rand’s view of man’s consciousness? “Man’s distinctive characteristic is his type of consciousness - a consciousness able to abstract, to form concepts, to apprehend reality by a process of reason…[The] valid definition of man, within the context of his knowledge ...
Graymalk · 140w
Yup. I share this line of reasoning and have based on it a worry that we can’t expect to recognize alien life if we encounter it in space. We are only good at recognizing mammals, and then decreasingly less good as we go farther and farther out. The only thing that usually tips us off is if it mov...
Viceroy101 · 140w
Terrifying for all the reasons we cannot think of.
Nostradamus · 140w
If God is the only consciousness that exists, and we are created from this conscious imagination, are we really conscious or just mimicking the creator's consciousness?
Hoshi · 140w
“Similarly, I have no assumption that large language models are conscious. They are using a lot of complexity to predict the next letter or word.” They are a black box that are trained to output the next word. That doesn’t mean that this is all that goes on in their “heads”. If I train hu...
John Whittemore · 140w
Excellent thoughts, Lyn. I should have guessed you were philosophically minded! I don’t think a material explanation of of the “lights on” of a first person perspective is possible. The only successful accounts of consciousness to my mind are those that acknowledge it to be primary and not de...
PurpleSalamander · 140w
Me, after reading this note: https://cdn.nostr.build/i/6efb8feb911a20d53c3b90525b49c53671baf918c1560b62035dcbdcc88badfe.jpg
Medici · 140w
I cannot attribute to the AI’s assembled complexity the same type appetites (passions) that I attribute to a complexity that has grown into existence, such as a living being. If I could understand that some appetite was driving AI’s action in accordance with its intentions, then I would look fo...
helpfuljoe · 140w
Captain Picard’s speech in Measure of a Man sums up my position. If it seems sentient, treat it as sentient. https://youtu.be/ol2WP0hc0NY
JDaenzer · 139w
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject, it was a good read. I would like to propose an alternative definition of consciousness for you to consider. I have a much more narrow view of what it is. I believe it is the sense of self. Having the concept of "I". I would recommend the book The O...
Michelle C Leigh · 139w
I address this issue in the final book of my Europa Trilogy. Not with AI but if we were to encounter alien life how do we judge "humanity" or "sentience".