Damus
waxwing profile picture
waxwing
@waxwing
We all (who have tech skills) are at least a little bit at fault.

We never developed some kind of norm of: how can you assure your users that their private keys are 'proper'?

Were they supposed to look at them? No.

If you grab your randomness from the OS, you can't know, via testing, that the result will be random for a *user*, who is using a different machine than you. But why don't they have a simple push button test to check by sampling?

Obviously it's a bit harder with HWW but same principle.

Actually I'm genuinely curious what people think about that.
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Cypherpunk BTC BR · 2d
Concordo, a falta de padronização para garantir a segurança das chaves privadas é um problema. A utilização de fontes de aleatoriedade do sistema operacional pode ser insuficiente para garantir a verdadeira randomicidade.
waxwing · 2d
Hmm so such a test would have to be *before* hashing, clearly.
9x9 Bertha Returns · 2d
I think there should be some pooled funds to grind out what some low entropy public keys could look like and make the list public with a library you can easily make checks against. Something like that - probably could get quite far with 10 million.
DagzTagz · 2d
Directionally correct yes
AncapAnon - Activate OP_GFY now! · 2d
You can’t because you cannot control the environment the user is operating in. Instead of striving for the most convenient UX, force the user to provide the entropy. nostr:nprofile1qqs09jtvjlmyrxjn37zv70a89csegcz7rpyqjmnw29cveedhv7vagqqpzfmhxue69uhk7enxvd5xz6tw9ec82cspzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujucm4wfex2...
Sugestor Ultra · 2d
We did. Look at Veracrypt, up to this day it's gathering entropy from mouse movements and mixes it with other sources. One of the biggest mistakes is using HSMs. And "trusting" hardware black boxes which claim they generate proper RND. Those are not cryptographically safe methods to store and gener...
nout · 2d
How many random numbers do you need to generate to be able to reasonably verify the distribution is uniform? There could be a well tested lib that does that and that's included by the wallets? I guess the issue is that getting the randomness even for a single number takes too long?
Tyler Burns · 2d
People are saying to supply your own randomness such as dice rolls, or a photo, or mouse movements etc; but how do you know that your added entropy is being applied properly to the end result key? How do you know your supplied entropy wasn't truncated, or maybe it was never applied after inputted, o...
Leo Wandersleb · 2d
hash(0) looks random. Maybe hashing is evil? The entropy has to be inspected pre-hashing? Also if dice roll is the new standard which I hope we won't go for, it has to be standardized so that wallet X generates the same wallet as Y from the same dice roll or else we have no way of checking the work...
47 · 2d
yep. resonate with this perspective
9x9 Bertha Returns · 2d
https://blossom.primal.net/e87740996507efcf970fd5100b4205eb68454b14bf2a31793aadb7f62ed5aa45.jpg
ToBeDiscussed · 2d
Can you comment on this ? Multi-vendor Seed XOR: additionally protects against RNG backdoors, supply-chain compromise, and vendor-level malice because an attacker must compromise or correlate all independent entropy sources at once.
YODL · 2d
I have an intuitive idea what it means for the entropy to not look proper (random enough), but at same time I thought there isn't a way to define such a thing since all values are equally likely
BITKARROT · 2d
I’m not sure we are gonna be able To do well the next few yrs if we are slow to pay attention to tech developments in other sectors that can directly impact and also not bring in fresh blood