Will code for food?

So true. I have an acquaintance, she's under 30 healthy, doing sports, no health issues. Doc put her on statins because her blood cholesterol is high (probably genetically). This is terrible. I told her about keto diet , carnivore diet that cholesterol number doesn't matter. She still takes the pills. It's a choice everyone makes for themselves and has to live with consequences, but at least it should be an informed choice.

> If they, through this process of reason, manage to discover some divine grain of truth. That truth will permeate the concsiousness of all men who understand that applying the knowledge gained will improve their lives and the lives of those around them. Proving the truth by manifesting it into their reality through working and refining their understanding.

What makes us Christians though is that we believe the gospel and are saved when we do it. And even through 50 years of contemplation in a cave in Tibet - you’ll never learn that Jesus gave his life for us and that by believing that you are saved.

> Sometimes God gifts us by injecting truth directly into our world. Like Exodus 20 God introducing himself to Moses and the life of Jesus.

the Bible is God teaching us about his plan and himself. This is how we can learn about Jesus, gospel, what God wants.

> We fallible men who are originally created in the image of God are the benefactors of divine truth and seek to understand it and when we realise something profound we seek to preserve it. I believe that this is a miracle of creation. That men could discover truth by reason of desire to understand pain and suffering in a dark world.

Adam was created in the image of God. We are in the image of Adam.

> This makes the love of Christ for the oikoumene in John 3:16 more powerful and understandable. Because if God loves anything less than that He is diminished. When claimed that men who are created in His image and animated by his spirit are less than capable to discover, understand and manifest truth in the world. All glory to Him for being the source by virtue of being the creator. We can clearly see where he injected truth directly into the world.

Yes. And you learn it from the Bible, which God revealed to us.

> Man's fallibility is a gift to us.

No. It is a result of sin.

Different focus, different language and time. OT is mostly narrative, history, poetry and prophecy and NT is basically all about Jesus and the gospel.

No problem! Have a good rest. The Convo won't run away haha

You can do it by doing markdown style commenting.

Using "> QUOTE return, blankline"

I haven't read any of his books yet. But I did hear about them. I think I will give them a read this week. Which one would you recommend to start with?

> “Through study of the new testament and the manuscripts included in the King James I have found no extra texts which I deem need to be included or text included which I would exclude.
The compilation is sufficiently and irreducably complex.”
Then this is something we agree on in regards to which books are in the canon.

> “Because I believe it happened (for multiple reasons not all relevant to this discussion) based on the fact that I hold Jesus in such esteem that I believe he would not qoute something if he did not value the account of it. There is text in the old testament that I would dispute more ardently than I would the new.”
According to this you also believe the Bible because of God. So we agree there too.
> “So, just because I believe the new Testament is canonised by men. Does not mean that I believe a manuscript should be added or removed. That is an assumption on your part.”
So far I did not assume anything IMHO. My question would be here, since you say you believe it was canonized by men, how do you know it is the correct canon? How do you know that Revelations belongs into the Bible? Or that Gospel of Barnabas doesn’t?

> ”Paul (1st witness) wrote that we should test all and retain that which is good. This supposes that he does not restrict lessons and edification to scripture alone but allows us to draw knowledge and inspiration from information extant to the "canon”.”
Paul says that the scripture is sufficient to make us perfect workers of God. Which means we don’t need anything else. Also whenever he was challenged on something Jesus always said “have you not READ?” So he was using scriptures as his authority. Which sets a good example for us and protects us from error. We should not add to the scripture but test everything against the scripture.
> “Joshua and Samuel (2nd & 3rd witnesses)
both state. "Is it not written in the book of Jasher?"
If God is indeed the author of Joshua and Samuel (like you claim) then why would He have referenced a book that no scholar on earth including myself would consider anything more but a compilation of stories which have value only in marginal and fringe research of history?
Would you value it if God referenced it as a source to verify events? Of course you must.
By nature of your claim you might just as well include the book of the upright into your supposed canon.”

That’s a wrong assumption. Just because it is mentioned doesn’t mean it should be included in the canon. Paul mentions also Greek writers and epistles we don’t have. They are not part of the canon.

“I do not fear reading it as I have. I do not fear drawing a valuable allegory or conclusion from it as I have. Most of what is recorded in it is utterly useless information.”
Here we disagree profoundly. So you are saying Bible is useless information? What do you mean by that? Because the way I see the Bible is the only place I can learn about God and his will. Reliably.

Toccata and fugue in D minor or perhaps Verdi's Dies Irae.

If it's the end of the world then the second one for sure!

No problem. From our disagreement we both can learn more. Since we both take different positions we can't be both right. We can be both wrong though heh.

It's a good opportunity to work on polishing our knowledge and conviction, and thank you for doing it in a polite and civilized manner.

Our question of canon is really only about the NT canon, correct?

Old testament scriptures were all revealed and acknowledged as such long before Jesus was born.

And they are inspired by God. Since the writers even wrote that God told them to write

Deuteronomy 31:9 KJVA “¶And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and unto all the elders of Israel.”

Shared using AndBible: Bible Study. (https://andbible.github.io)

Isaiah 8:1 KJVA “Moreover the Lord said unto me, Take thee a great roll, and write in it with a man's pen concerning Maher–shalal–hash–baz.”

Shared using AndBible: Bible Study. (https://andbible.github.io)

Notice how Isaiah even writes down that God told him to write down - words of God are all precious and we can learn from everyone of them.

Here we can learn as throughout the whole old testament is that God wanted us to write things down - not an oral tradition but a written tradition.

Yes, I'm carnivore.

I will try your suggestions! Thank you very much!

And yes - I do believe that the Bible is authoritative because it's the word of God.

There are actually a lot of other smart books written, on morals, life, history etc.

But neither of them carries the same authority as the Bible. And the Bible is unique in this regard as it is the ONLY authority for a Christian.

Once you choose books based on what you deem good or correct and not on their source - you can have multiple authorities. Not a single, trustworthy authority.

Then we have different positions.

Because only the author can say what's canon and what's outside of it.

And yes, different people wrote different things, but it was everything that God wanted us to have. He inspired those men to write it.

Men are fallible, God is not and as such we can only trust God's word not men's words.

So to have this thing so very important to our faith - a book (and remember even Job back in the day lamented he didn't have one) that teaches us about God, tells us his wish and his plan and that let's truth speak for itself.