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Nonces are a weakness of the frost system, Bitcoin uses deterministic nonces (at least for wsh, not sure about tr).
Deterministic nonces only help if you check them, and checking means signing the same transaction again on a second device and comparing the signatures.
RFC 6979 derives the nonce from your private key, so that second device now learns your entire seedphrase. That puts your secret on more devices, which works against the reason you bought a hardware wallet, and now you're trusting the second device as well. Almost nobody does this in practice, so you're still trusting one device to pick a good nonce.
In FROST no single device picks the nonce. Each signing device adds its own random nonce, and these combine into the final one. So long as just one single device is honest, the final nonce is random and none of them could have predicted it, so a compromised device can't steer it to hide data in the signature.
Keys work the same way: no device holds the whole private key, and no device controls the whole nonce. Several devices are always involved and they check each other as part of the protocol.
RFC 6979 derives the nonce from your private key, so that second device now learns your entire seedphrase. That puts your secret on more devices, which works against the reason you bought a hardware wallet, and now you're trusting the second device as well. Almost nobody does this in practice, so you're still trusting one device to pick a good nonce.
In FROST no single device picks the nonce. Each signing device adds its own random nonce, and these combine into the final one. So long as just one single device is honest, the final nonce is random and none of them could have predicted it, so a compromised device can't steer it to hide data in the signature.
Keys work the same way: no device holds the whole private key, and no device controls the whole nonce. Several devices are always involved and they check each other as part of the protocol.
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Dice rolling only begins to start making sense when you:
(1) Verify entropy → seedphrase on an independent device, to check the device actually used it.
(2) Verify seedphrase → root private key → public key conversions on an independent device.
(3) Roll dice to generate nonces every time you want to spend bitcoin, since nonces are another random number that the device could create poorly or maliciously...
.. Or because no one realistically does this, verify that the device correctly signed using deterministic nonces (no one does this either). Both methods requiring verification on an independent device if you don't want to trust.
You'll notice that there's a pattern of:
- Don't trust a single device to generate randomness
- Verify on another device
And that's exactly what FROST's Distributed Key Generation and signing achieve; but it's automated and not completely insane.
Each device participating in key generation contributes a random secret a group secret key. So long as one of them has good entropy, so does the the entire multisignature.
Crucially, the devices do not trust that their entropy was utilized, they mathematically verify that their entropy was included in the wallet secret. And furthermore, every participating device agrees upon the public keys and addresses by default at the end of the protocol.
Distributed Key Generation validates everything, all you need to do is confirm that a short security check code matches on all device screens, which verifies that every device saw the same sequence of events within this ceremony. Frosty.
(1) Verify entropy → seedphrase on an independent device, to check the device actually used it.
(2) Verify seedphrase → root private key → public key conversions on an independent device.
(3) Roll dice to generate nonces every time you want to spend bitcoin, since nonces are another random number that the device could create poorly or maliciously...
.. Or because no one realistically does this, verify that the device correctly signed using deterministic nonces (no one does this either). Both methods requiring verification on an independent device if you don't want to trust.
You'll notice that there's a pattern of:
- Don't trust a single device to generate randomness
- Verify on another device
And that's exactly what FROST's Distributed Key Generation and signing achieve; but it's automated and not completely insane.
Each device participating in key generation contributes a random secret a group secret key. So long as one of them has good entropy, so does the the entire multisignature.
Crucially, the devices do not trust that their entropy was utilized, they mathematically verify that their entropy was included in the wallet secret. And furthermore, every participating device agrees upon the public keys and addresses by default at the end of the protocol.
Distributed Key Generation validates everything, all you need to do is confirm that a short security check code matches on all device screens, which verifies that every device saw the same sequence of events within this ceremony. Frosty.
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Hello, is there any news yet regarding the update and the key error on certain Android smartphones? I'd also like to learn more about the project's status. Are you planning to set up sub-accounts and ...
We're getting this one reviewed and through!
https://github.com/frostsnap/frostsnap/pull/511
In the meantime you can use another device as a coordinator if you have one available.
We ourselves really want subaccounts! So expect to see progress on them soon.
https://github.com/frostsnap/frostsnap/pull/511
In the meantime you can use another device as a coordinator if you have one available.
We ourselves really want subaccounts! So expect to see progress on them soon.
More bitcoiners than ever are securing their life savings outside their home and establishing sovereign inheritance pathways. Hugely successful week for Frostsnap at @BTC Prague.
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Huge week for the Frostsnap team and another step forward in protecting bitcoiners from loss and coercion.
Come and visit our booth at @BTC Prague!
Come and visit our booth at @BTC Prague!
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Three years ago we attended nostr:nprofile1qqsd0f68dvf98gvs9am9dp0lu0f4r7xzu2k89rm9tt448axf5tu6wlgphpy4c, jumping booth-to-booth to share our early prototype with friendly faces we'd only ever interac...
Want to meet us in Prague and get a hands-on experience with Frostsnap?
Code FROSTSNAP gets you 10% off your ticket. See you at our booth!!
Code FROSTSNAP gets you 10% off your ticket. See you at our booth!!
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Three years ago we attended @BTC Prague, jumping booth-to-booth to share our early prototype with friendly faces we'd only ever interacted with online.
This year we're back with the real thing: Frostsnap. Multisig made simple, with no single point of failure.
This year we're back with the real thing: Frostsnap. Multisig made simple, with no single point of failure.
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The screen recording is totally garbled on my device. Audio is fine.
Should be fixed now, you might need to open in different browser / with clear cache.
You can export your wallet descriptor into other wallets such as Sparrow Wallet, build transactions as PSBTs, and sign them on your Frostsnap devices
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Protect your Bitcoin from theft, loss, and coercion.
How to set up a Frostsnap 2-of-3 multisig wallet and create backups:
How to set up a Frostsnap 2-of-3 multisig wallet and create backups:
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Preorders closing soon for the legendary early adopter batch of Frostsnap Frontiers. Final stages of manufacturing underway 🎉
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