Upload a tutorial video perhaps ?

Hi , sorry for my delayed response. I wrote a draft but it didn’t get saved as I wanted to come back to it and finish it later 😄 . So let me try to write it again.

I guess Im referring to eating Animals itself as a naturalistic fallacy that its the way it happens in nature, so we will do it and then comes we should do it in a better way than nature.

But our methods are actually not better than nature - an animal raised only to be killed (At least nature is kinder in giving them a chance at survival). And then the people who do the killing don’t even want to do it (read a research on that long ago) and only do because we live in a monetary system where everyone has to earn a living and so they do so to survive ( In nature the eater does the killing, but we have outsourced that pain , guilt & useless empathy to others) ..

In short, our ways are way worse than nature and one of the causes for it is monetary market based economic system we live in. We can do better but only if we acknowledge that we are not doing our best

We definitely need not be more cruel than nature, I think we can agree on that.

What Dr. Temple Grandin’s work did was to make animal slaughter less cruel than it was.

But, I think we humans kill animals in a more cruel way than nature does. When in the wild animals are hunted they have a chance to escape and live , we on the other hand leave them no choice like that, which is much worse if you think about cruelty not just in the form of physical violence, its a lifetime of torture and imprisonment, So yeah, sorry but we are much below natures standards and I think, we need to keep striving to rise above it rather than using “Naturalistic Fallacy” argument to justify status quo.

Today I came across the term “Naturalistic Fallacy” which I think fits perfectly to what I wanted to respond regarding competition in nature vs competition in human built systems.

It states that just because something is a certain way in nature, doesn’t mean it ought to be that way in human morality.

Reminds me of a recent song I wrote/made using my Philosophical notes on Evolution as a Greedy Optimizing algorithm vs Conciousness + Me humming the tune + AI putting it all together, please give it a listen 😃 :

https://podverse.fm/episode/ui6sdtn-g

So .. I think money and its direct consequence, profit, played a very important role - lots of trade, cultural exchange, etc. Just like, Competition has played a very important role in Evolution and therefore Humans exist today. So no, Im not classifying any of them as categorically bad.

I now remember a famous quote "Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be" by Dr. Temple Grandin. By the way, I remeber it from a really good movie based on her life, worth checking out.

So, Yes competition, money and therfore profit are not bad. They were needed in the past. But now they're not well suited to be dominant mechanics or the soul of our economic system, we need to evolve out of it too.

If change is the only thing constant, then maybe we must entertain a bit of change. And I think our economic system needs change.

Let me know how you like the song 😃

True, it is a really competitive space but its food 🥺, its life, we need to claim it back and make it free from profit. No matter what the currency is (Even Bitcoin), we know how profit ruins any industry, I think this is clear to the world today.

So though I agree theres a monopoly of money but I don’t see how a new form of the same idea (ofcourse free from govt n central authorities) has a different effect on humans in running the same services/businesses , won’t we want more of bitcoin , will profit maximising disappear, will hiding scientific research to make profit go away, will businesses suddenly care , will kindness exponentially increase? I dont see how.

It was hard for me to imagine how Vipassana Meditation centers which don't charge a penny, still exist and not only exist , they grow, Now they have 267 own centers world wide offering 10 day courses for free. The surprising part is once you finish a course, there is no one "asking" you to donate. Sometimes people have to really ask around where the donation counter is. That is the effect of something that is offered selflessly and we living in a system built upon selfishness have forgotten that power. And a selfless organization isn't playing the game of "who is taking advantage of whom" - that game is only true inside a system based on selfishness.

Yes, there are paid employees and also volunteers in co-ops. Both are possible.

You would be surprised regarding margins. This is the recent report on retail sector / Supermarkets in Germany (As its in German, maybe some AI can answer your questions once you upload and ask it): https://monopolkommission.de/images/PDF/SG/SG%20LLK%202025/Sondergutachten%20Lebensmittellieferkette_Monopolkommission.pdf

In summary, there is a kind of monopoly happening in Germany, these supermarkets squeeze the farmers, food processors and also charge customers a lot as they don't pass on the savings. And guess who is the wealthiest person in Germany, owner of a grocery chain, Aldi.

I have read the history of money and those examples. Somehow the assumption is that we would go back to that era when the topic of a moneyless economy comes because it is hard to imagine one and so as I said it is hard to describe for me the final evolved form of the economy without money.

I just try to kickstart this simple zero-profit grocery project and see where it goes 😄 .. I know it wont transform the entire economy in my lifetime, but maybe after 75-100 years - just laying the foundations, sowing the seed for a different kind of economy :-)

Thank you :)
It’s a simple grocery store idea and so, I think it will work anywhere. This is more like a consumer food coop and when Food coops can exist why not this everywhere?
Normal stores - Try to Maximise & keep all profit
Coops - Share it with members as dividends
Zero profit store - Gives it back to customers it took it from.
Simple unexplored business model and doable I think.
And thanks for read it 🙏👍

This is hard to answer because
1. I don’t exactly know how it will function.
2. It will loosely be based on gift economy values.

What I am mostly confident of is the path towards such an economy which will inevitably take us towards a new system and reveal it’s exact workings.

The path I have in mind is an application of an ancient meditation method called Vipassana to the economy. Basically in this meditation, the root cause of suffering is identified to be our cravings and aversions.

I think the economic system suffers from the same (Cravings for infinite growth).

When I apply it to economy I got this : Start zero-profit business in the food sector. And hence I have a plan document here if you’re interested:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tlFSN8bUQ3IQ__h3kct83hqF8pH8pNhGpAU5IMPNKGg/edit?usp=drivesdk

Humans don’t seem to let go of money but the system needs money to be redistributed to keep the consumption economy going.
And so Taxation (and UBI in future) will exist to keep the monetary economic system alive. The only freedom in my opinion is to evolve the system into something non-monetary resource based system.

Oh yea true, I forgot that he is going to raise taxes for the top 1-5% richest I think.

Anyway, I do understand the idea - whenever things are forced, we don’t like it and also makes us dislike things that indirectly cause this forcing (poverty, inequality, food subsidies, etc etc ) and thus reduces kindness in the world.

But also, as long as the concept/tool of “taxation” exists as a system balancing act, guys like him are needed.

Discussions to usurp forcing tools completely from our systems is a different topic - this has been my main point that we should not misplace our disappointments or anger.

By theft if you mean taxation that is already happening and he is advocating for using taxes properly for better public services, so it makes sense.

If the issue is about taxation and system itself then it’s a different topic , nothing to do with him I think.