Damus
Lyn Alden profile picture
Lyn Alden
@LynAlden
“We should change Bitcoin now in a contentious way to fix the security budget” is basically the same tinkering mentality that central bankers have.

It begins with an overconfident assumption that they know fees won’t be sufficient in the future and that a certain “fix” is going to generate more fees. But some “fixes” could even backfire and create less fees, or introduce bugs, or damage the incentive structure.

The Bitcoin fee market a couple decades out will primarily be a function of adoption or lack thereof. In a world of eight billion people, only a couple hundred million can do an on chain transaction per year, or a bit more with maximal batching. The number of people who could do a monthly transaction is 1/12th of that number. In order to be concerned that bitcoin fees will be too low to prevent censorship in the future, we have to start with the assumption that not many people use bitcoin decades out.

Fedwire has about 100x the gross volume that Bitcoin currently does, with a similar number of transactions. What will Bitcoin’s fee market be if volumes go up 5x or 10x, let alone 50x or 100x? Who wants to raise their hand with a confident model of what bitcoin volumes will be in 2040?

What will someone pay to send a ten million dollar equivalent on chain settlement internationally? $100 in fees per million dollar settlement transaction would be .01%. $300 to get it in a quicker block would be 0.03%. That type of environment can generate tens of billions of dollars of fees annually. The fees that people pay to ship millions of dollars of gold long distances, or to perform a real estate transaction worth millions of dollars, are extremely high. Even if bitcoin is a fraction of that, it would be high by today’s standards. And in a world of billions of people, if nobody wants to pay $100 to send a million dollar settlement bearer asset transaction, then that’s a world where not many people use bitcoin period.

In some months the “security budget” concern trends. In other months, the “fees will be so high that only rich people can transact on chain” concern trends. These are so wildly contradictory and the fact that both are common concerns shows how little we know about the long term future.

I don’t think the fee market can be fixed by gimmicks. Either the network is desirable to use in a couple decades or it’s not. If 3 or 4 decades into bitcoin’s life it can’t generate significant settlement volumes, and gets easily censored due to low fees, then it’s just not a very desirable network at that point for one reason or another.

Some soft forks like covenants can be thoughtfully considered for scaling and fee density, and it’s good for smart developers to always be thinking about low risk improvements to the network that the node network and miners might have a high consensus positive view toward over time. But trying to rush VC-backed softforks, and using security budget FUD to push them, is pretty disingenuous imo.

Anyway, good morning.
92137❤️180🤙180🔥7❤️4🧡4👍3
nodesy · 155w
Always wary when people try to sell you a solution to a problem that may not exist
StackSats.IO · 155w
Drivechainers are the same as Central Bankers, but they don’t deserve the guillotine. Got it.
walker · 155w
Good morning, indeed! Thank you for this. The comparison to central bankers is so unsettlingly true… It’s the same ego and hubris that gets us into a mess in the fiat world…
PeakyBTC · 155w
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
NodlAndHodl · 155w
This. So much this.
Unhosted Marcellus · 155w
> But some “fixes” could even backfire and create less fees, or introduce bugs, or damage the incentive structure > Some soft forks like covenants can be thoughtfully considered for scaling and fee density Couldn't this be one of these cases? If covenants allow moving a lot of the transaction...
Tico 🇨🇷 · 155w
GM Lyn 🤗 This motivates me to keep using lightning ⚡
47 · 155w
Based af, Lyn
j · 155w
I'm not reading all that but sorry that's happening to you or whatever
a_priori · 155w
Can one of these Central Bitcoiners accurately predict what transaction fees will be tomorrow, much less in 2040?
Matt Corallo · 155w
To be fair, we do absolutely need to do fee smoothing to reduce spikes.
Crypto_Vantage · 155w
It's crucial to have a stalwart in the crypto space that understands the balance between fees and transaction volume. While fees are necessary to support the network, they should not discourage transactions excessively. It's encouraging to see the markets slowly realizing this, especially considerin...
Sir Libre · 155w
https://odysee.com/@quotes:6/thomas-sowell-on-the-intellectual-temptation:f
Haha · 155w
🤔
Micah541 · 155w
I have some objections to this analysis. The "wildly contradictory" arguments that you point to are precisely the problem: Fees could be so high that only rich people can use L1 (plebs sure aren't going to spending $50 every transaction) while at the same time even these higher fees could represen...
Psilocyberbull · 155w
You are without a doubt by far my favorite mind in bitcoin 👏👏
qa · 155w
Amazing!
btctotoro · 155w
This is the signal i need in the AM
Knightstr · 155w
It’s important to remember that there are multi-billion dollar mining companies who have a financial interest in changing the protocol in a way that benefits their economics, not necessarily the system as a whole. Now is a particularly challenging time for bitcoin miners with the hash price near a...
BR Bitcoinapolis · 155w
It may make a lot of sense to revisit Satoshi's words on this - https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg09964.html
Brisket · 155w
Good morning. I'm not concerned about the security budget of bitcoin. I'm certain that the free market will find the right balance of security & usability.
nobody · 155w
And between 2040 and soon, the fees will be entirely offset by the electricity producer. The Texas anti-Bitcoin bill was likely the lever pulling of large gas-fired peak power producers, who saw their $9,000 /kw hour peak fees disappear as the grid has become more adaptive. Proposed changes are ...
Tom Samuel · 155w
An excellent heads up
Smiffy · 155w
Fees are SAFU (they really are). Introducing potential existential risks on the base chain is a no go. GM!
OpenMike · 155w
Anti tinkering
nostrich · 155w
Attack surface !!! Every tinker risks widening the attack surface in ways that can be bewildering.