Damus
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Lyn Alden
@LynAlden
What are your favorite examples of antagonists that change and grow throughout a story but generally remain antagonists?

Eg they are not “protagonist villains” like Walter White, and they are not “redeemed villains” because at least in some ways, they fail to redeem or their growth arc, while present, is stunted.

Usually an antagonist is static, while a protagonist grows to defeat them. But in some fiction, the antagonist grows and changes and yet still is an antagonist.

Jamie Lannister is an interesting example. He starts off by callously pushing a child out a window. And he goes to war against the protagonists of House Stark.

But then he gets humbled, has his perspective changed, fixes some of his weaknesses and leans more on his strengths, becomes likeable by the audience, finds himself pairing up with the protagonists more, etc. So he goes through a growth arc.

But then at the end, he still chooses his original side. More mature, but still ultimately bound by his same weaknesses. An interesting arc to watch, and one that probably would have been more interesting if the last season wasn’t rushed and bad.

Any other good examples? Maybe ones that remain more villainous than Jaime?
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Nic · 40w
Two-Face has had a hero to villain, to hero, to villain arc. Unfortunately it has been too long for me to remember when that was.
david · 40w
Dementus (Chris Hemsworth) in Furiosa. Definitely the antagonist the whole way through. Idk if you’d categorize it as growth, but there is a scene towards the end of the movie that reveals choices / aspects of his character and his motivations that were surprising and made him much more interestin...
Flobstr · 40w
Gollum/Sméagol
corndalorian · 40w
Agent Smith
wolfpy · 40w
I am not sure what this is what you are looking for but when I was young I enjoyed This trilogy. Where the protagonist is kind of bad but it has been some years
wolfpy · 40w
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartimaeus_Sequence
Hamlin · 40w
Top of my head.. Lago Trash can man. Harry August
Technician · 40w
Oscar the Grouch. Always learning important life lessons. Still always the grouch.
wolfpy · 40w
In terms of complex character I always loved Joe Abercrombie
wolfpy · 40w
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Law
Johan · 40w
I wish more stories did redemption arch's that fail. I hoped that Kilo Ren would have been one of those but then JJ came back and made a turd.
MrTea · 40w
Marlo Stanfield from The Wire comes to mind. He grew to understand the business and politics of the co-op but ultimately abandoned it for his addiction to the street life. He had every opportunity to reject that life but his morals never changed even if other aspects of his life did.
jimmysong · 40w
The emperor in Gladiator. He gets more and more consumed by power and glory as the movie goes on.
Brunswick · 40w
Dr. Who's "Master" is an excellent, though cartoonish, villain. He consistently, though recently gained a significant amount of depth, is the foil, and the depths of his evil are seemingly boundless. A truly dark triad character.
THEDAILYEAGLE · 40w
T bag in prison break
Paul · 40w
Just finished The Stand by King. Harold Lauder is a good example of this.
Adrian M Lopez · 40w
Dedra from Andor is pretty compelling
Jimbo Galtomoto · 40w
Hannibal Lecter
Big Smoke · 40w
J E Hoover as written by James Ellroy. It's hard to find a character in a James Ellroy novel that does not fit this profile. His J Edgar Hoover, though, was wild.
Bill Cypher · 40w
Not exactly what you asked, but Ice King from adventure time has an amazing character arc from starting as a villain. B character who ends up having the best story in the show by the end of the spin off.
light a walrus · 40w
Bernard from “brave new world.” He’s his own downfall.
M0053 · 40w
Al Swerengen in HBOs Deadwood. Maybe "Heizenberg" in Bresking Bad (he kinda fits? Maybe more Antihero?
btcttombola · 40w
Spike
Zen<3lofi · 40w
hmm so are ‘villains’ in stories villains because they persist in their weaknesses?
Felipe Fenton · 40w
Darth Vader. Also, could be argued that Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca could be protagonist or antagonist.
Wassy · 40w
I suppose, it's Lord Palmerston from ITVs Victoria series, being hugely controversial with Queen thoughts and deeds, but then arriving at some point to look in the same direction. And nevertheless to remain on the same grounds.
Hoshi · 40w
Louis (Metaphor: ReFantazio)
Boal · 40w
+1 for Al Swerengen in HBOs Deadwood. One of all-time favorite television series, for precisely this reason
₿oniz23⚡️🏴‍☠️🇮🇹 · 40w
Gollum is a brilliant example of a tragic antagonist. He evolves constantly torn between his darker side (Gollum) and what’s left of his former self (Sméagol). He shows glimpses of loyalty and vulnerability, especially with Frodo, but his obsession with the Ring always pulls him back. In the end,...
Nakatomi · 40w
Maybe the Hound, in the same series. He is an antagonist at the beginning, "working for" the Lannister family. But after, he becomes an absolutely outsider, independant from the Lannister's, and still in love with Sansa. By the years, he knows Arya (Sansa's antagonist, if you think about it), figh...
John · 40w
Russell Crowe as Ben Wade in 3:10 to Yuma
Bewlay · 40w
Hans Grueber…. Not quite who you thought he was at the start of the film